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SASC Emerging Threats and Capabilities Subcommittee hearing transcript — AARO (Kosloski)

Senate Armed Services Committee · 2024-11-19

SASC Emerging Threats and Capabilities Subcommittee hearing transcript — AARO (Kosloski) · 30 pages · PDF 0.3 MB

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Stenographic Transcript
Before the


Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities


COMMITTEE ON
ARMED SERVICES


UNITED STATES SENATE


TO RECEIVE TESTIMONY ON THE ACTIVITIES OF THE ALL-
DOMAIN ANOMALY RESOLUTION OFFICE


Tuesday, November 19, 2024

Washington, D.C.



ALDERSON COURT REPORTING
1029 VERMONT AVE, NW
10TH FLOOR
WASHINGTON, DC 20005
(202) 289-2260
www.aldersonreporting.com

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[email protected]
800.FOR.DEPO
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(800.367.3376)
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  TO RECEIVE TESTIMONY ON THE ACTIVITIES OF THE ALL-DOMAIN
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                  ANOMALY RESOLUTION OFFICE
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                 Tuesday, November 19, 2024
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                              U.S. Senate
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                              Committee on Armed Services
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                              Subcommittee on Emerging
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                              Threats and Capabilities
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                              Washington, D.C.
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     The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:30 p.m. in
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Room SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Kirsten
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Gillibrand, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.
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     Committee Members Present:  Senators Gillibrand,
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Peters, and Ernst.
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      OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. KRISTEN GILLIBRAND, U.S.
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SENATOR FROM NEW YORK
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     Senator Gillibrand:  This hearing will come to order.
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I would like to first thank our witness, Dr. Jon Kosloski,
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for testifying.  He is our newly appointed Director of the
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All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, or AARO, an office
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Congress established in the fiscal year 2022 NDAA, to
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investigate the very serious problem of unidentified
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anomalous phenomenon, or UAP.
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     Dr. Kosloski comes to AARO from the Research
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Directorate of the National Security Agency, where he worked
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in areas of optics research and crypto mathematics.  He
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previously served at the DoD Special Communications
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Enterprise Office.  We look forward to regular engagements
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between you and the Committee.
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     When unidentified anomalous phenomenon enters our
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airspace we need to know about it.  We need to identify it,
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but in order to do that we need to reduce the stigma and
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credibility challenges associated with these events.  Our
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servicemembers, scientists, foreign partners, and the
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general public need to know that their reporting, research,
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and analysis will be taken seriously and acted on in good
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faith.
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     In the spirit of transparency, AARO recently released a
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consolidated annual report, just a few months after

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releasing the first volume of a historical record report in
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March of this year.  These public documents help highlight
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the challenges still facing this office, including the lack
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of timely and actionable sensor data, the need to revisit
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cases placed in the active archive, and the importance of
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improving reporting sources, both in the interagency and
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internationally.
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     In this hearing I want to probe a series of specific
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issues.  First, as incidents at Langley and elsewhere have
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demonstrated, unmanned aerial systems, or UAS, continue to
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pose significant threats to our national security.  In
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addition to safety of flight issues these UAS create for our
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own pilots and air crew, the UAS present clear and
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undeniable counterintelligence concerns around some of the
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most sensitive airspace.  While standard UAS are not part of
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AARO's mission, your work on sensors at military
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installations across the country will be critical to making
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sure that we have the domain awareness necessary to
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accurately identify and track these objects.  I expect your
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office to also pay close attention to any anomalous
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characteristics that these systems could present in the
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future.
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     Second, I look forward to your presentation of three
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case studies demonstrating cases that AARO has resolved,
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including the GOFAST, which is one of the most prominent UAP

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cases.  However, I believe it is important to acknowledge
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ongoing public interest in the Nimitz incident, the GIMBAL
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video, and other prominent UAP cases, and for AARO to share
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what it can about those cases, as well.
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     It is also important that AARO speak to unresolved
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cases and what types of anomalous activity have merited
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further analysis.  And while I know AARO has gone through a
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period of transition over the past year, it is important to
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share these disclosures, both resolved and unresolved cases,
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with the public, even when a Senate hearing is not
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scheduled.
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     Lastly, while some have been hesitant to come forward
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to AARO in the past, I hope that potential individuals with
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firsthand knowledge of unreported programs view your arrival
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in this position as an opportunity for a new start.  AARO
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was created by Congress to do this work.  Congress waives
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nondisclosure agreements for those who disclose information
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to AARO, and gave AARO the authority to go and turn over
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every rock.  I hope those with information to share use this
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opportunity so that we, as your Senators who represent you,
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can do our job.
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     I look forward to hearing more on these issues from Dr.
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Kosloski, and for members to start a dialogue on this
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important topic.
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     With that I would like to turn to Senator Ernst for her

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opening
statement .
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TP One
Scheduling @TP. One
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      OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JONI ERNST, U.S. SENATOR
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FROM IOWA
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     Senator Ernst:  Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you,
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Dr. Kosloski.  Our hearing today is about identifying UAPs
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and understanding their potential implications, which could
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range from technological advancements to potential threats
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to our national security.  Are these phenomena tied to
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foreign adversaries such as China or Russia, leveraging
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advanced technologies beyond our current capabilities, or do
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they represent unknown scientific phenomena that challenge
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our current understanding?
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     We must answer these critical questions to ensure that
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our national security is not compromised.  It is vital that
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all agencies work in tandem to aggregate data, identify
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patterns, and develop robust analytical frameworks.  Our
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ability to detect, track, and respond to UAPs requires the
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latest technology and full cooperation from all government
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branches.
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     Thanks very much, Dr. Kosloski, for your attention to
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this matter, and I look forward to the valuable insights
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that you and AARO can provide to our Committee.  And I yield
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back.  Thank you.
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Senator Gillibrand:
opening statement .
TP One
Dr.
Kosloski,
please make
Scheduling @TP. One
www.TP.One
YOur
800.FOR.DEPO
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      STATEMENT OF JON T. KOSLOSKI, Ph.D., DIRECTOR, ALL-
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DOMAIN ANOMALY RESOLUTION OFFICE
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     Dr. Kosloski:  Thank you, Chairwoman Gillibrand,
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Ranking Member Ernst, and distinguished members of the
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Subcommittee.  It is a pleasure to be here on behalf of the
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Department of Defense as the new Director of the All-domain
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Anomaly Resolution Office.  I appreciate the opportunity to
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provide a status update on AARO's work and respond to your
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questions about unidentified anomalous phenomena, or UAP.
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     On behalf of the Department and the entire AARO team, I
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want to say how grateful we are to Congress for its
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continued support.  Unidentified objects in any domain pose
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potential threats to U.S. safety and security.  Reports of
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UAP activity, particularly near national security sites,
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must be treated seriously and investigated with scientific
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rigor by the U.S. government.
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     By way of introduction, I am Jon Kosloski.  I am a
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researcher at my core, with an academic background in
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mathematics, physics, and engineering.  I have spent most of
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my career at the National Security Agency leading advanced
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research in the areas of optics, computing, and crypto
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mathematics.  By nature, I am drawn to tough scientific
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problems, which is what brought me to AARO and the UAP
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mission.
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     Since I arrived at AARO in August, I have been

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impressed by the breadth and depth of my team's experience
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and the framework they have established to rigorously
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analyze UAP reports.  AARO has taken meaningful steps to
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improve data collection and retention, bolster sensor
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development, effectively triage UAP reports, and reduce the
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stigma of reporting UAP events.  Last year, AARO worked with
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DoD's Joint Staff to issue guidance to defense personnel
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worldwide on how to report UAP observations, and is working
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with the military services regarding implementation.  AARO
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has also launched a public website that features UAP
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imagery, case resolutions, material analysis, archival
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records, and more.  These are only a few examples of AARO's
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recent progress, and we are just getting started.
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     To date, AARO has over 1,600 UAP reports in its
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holdings from across the U.S. government.  I will share a
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slide in just a few minutes with updated UAP analytic
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trends.  You will see that many reports resolve to
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commonplace objects like birds, balloons, and unmanned
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systems, while others lack sufficient data for comprehensive
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analysis.  Although only a very small percentage of reports
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received by AARO are potentially anomalous, these are the
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cases that require significant time, resources, and a
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focused scientific inquiry by AARO and its network of
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partners.  It is important to underscore that, to date, AARO
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has not discovered any verifiable evidence of

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extraterrestrial beings, activity, or technology.
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     To accomplish AARO's national security mission, I have
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set three priorities for the office:  building strong
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partnerships, promoting transparency, and scaling up the
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work of the office.
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     AARO cannot do its work alone.  Building partnerships
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across government, academia, industry, and with the public
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is essential to the success of the office.  Strong
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cooperation with the military services is particularly
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important.  We rely on their support to implement our
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reporting guidance and to amplify the message that there
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should be zero stigma associated with UAP reporting.
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     We also rely on partnerships with the National Labs,
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the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, FBI,
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Department of Homeland Security, and NASA, all of which play
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a role in the whole-of-government effort to address UAP.
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     Recognizing the talent and expertise that reside
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outside of government, AARO will continue to explore new
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ways to partner with the academic and scientific communities
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to investigate its most complex UAP cases.
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     A related priority for AARO is transparency.  Our
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ability to collaborate with key partners, including the
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scientific community and the public, relies on information
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sharing, to include downgrading and declassifying UAP-
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related information.  In some cases, it may be unclear to

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the public why the DoD classified a piece of information in
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the first place.  Why are photos of seemingly benign objects
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such as balloons classified?  It is often the case that an
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object or phenomenon itself is not a security concern, but
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the location, source, or method used to capture it is still
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sensitive.  Many cases are difficult to quickly release to
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the public but are reported to the appropriate committees in
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Congress that are authorized by the law or House and Senate
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leadership to receive the information.
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     It is important to note that AARO does not unilaterally
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declassify information.  Instead, we work with the
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originator of a classified record to ensure that
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declassifying that record does not inadvertently harm
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national security.  This can take time.  Nonetheless, the
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Department is committed to declassifying and publicly
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sharing more information on UAP, while protecting sensitive
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sources and methods.  I will be sharing some newly
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declassified imagery in just a few minutes.
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     AARO is also working closely with the National Archives
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and Records Administration to make UAP-related documents
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publicly available in a digitized collection.  Meanwhile,
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AARO continues to review the U.S. historical record relating
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to UAP.  We welcome any former or current government
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civilian, contractor, or military servicemember with
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relevant information to reach out to us at www.aaro.mil.

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     My final priority is scaling up AARO's work to match
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its mission.  AARO needs to bolster the quantity, quality,
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and diversity of data that it acquires and examines.  This
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means tapping into existing data sources within the
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interagency while deploying AARO's own organic sensor
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capabilities.  To the extent that UAP result from domain
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awareness gaps, more and better data will help us fill those
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gaps and help us understand what is being encountered.
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     In closing, AARO is committed to the highest standards
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of scientific integrity.  We will not foreclose on any
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explanation for UAP prematurely.  We will continue to follow
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the science and data wherever they lead.  We will continue
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to have an open and frank dialogue with Congress in settings
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like these and in classified briefings.  We will continue to
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keep you fully and currently informed of all UAP
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information, active or historical.  And finally, we will
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share as much information as possible at the unclassified
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level to inform the public of AARO's activities and its
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findings.
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     For now I would like to turn to a brief presentation of
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UAP trends and cases, and then I would be happy to take
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questions.
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     This chart represents the UAP reporting since 1996, and
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as has previously been discussed by AARO, sensor placement
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seems to have caused a bias in our data, both geographic and

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at altitude.  And we are working to resolve that bias in
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2025, or reduce that bias, through broader engagements with
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the DoD as well as the IC and the rest of the government,
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also by incorporating broader sensors into our data and
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through a public reporting mechanism that we hope to have
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live in mid 2025.
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     On the left side it shows the altitudes, and we will
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see -- it is a bit cut off -- we will see that most of the
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reporting occurs between 15,000 and 25,000 feet.  That
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happens to be where most of our sensors are.  And the
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reporting above and below that is also often coming from
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those same platforms.
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     In the center we will see that the resolved cases have
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the vast majority being balloons and UAS.  We are seeing a
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great increase in satellites recently, particularly with the
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launch of mega satellite constellations such as Starlink,
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where the satellites are catching what is called satellite
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flares or glint off the sun, just after sunset or just
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before sunrise.
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     And on the right-most we will see the morphology or the
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shapes that have been reported.  The majority have been
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lights or orbs.  We think that there is going to be an
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increase in the lights with the mega constellations.  But
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our most interesting cases, some of which I will discuss
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later, our actually the E-shape such as the triangles or the

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cylinders.
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     And at the bottom we will see the geographic bias that
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I mentioned before, where most of the reports historically
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have been near the government sites.  This bias has been
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reduced recently by reporting from the FAA.  We now get
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weekly reports from them.  And a great thank-you to our
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aviators for making those reports.  It helps our analysis
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quite a bit.
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     Okay.  A case that we thought would be a transmedium
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case as it was reported, is well-known on the outside, known
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as the Puerto Rico case.  It was data collected in 2013,
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when a Customs and Border Patrol aircraft observed an object
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flying near an airport in Puerto Rico.  The green line in
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this diagram is the track that the airplane was taking, and
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those many crossed lines are the directions that the camera
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was facing at the time that the airplane was flying around
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the airport.  And we will watch the video in just a moment.
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     The orange arrow in the center is where we assessed
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that the UAP was actually flying, and transmedium means that
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it goes from one domain into another.  In this case, it
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looks like it goes from the air into the water and then back
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into the air.  We assessed that it was actually flying over
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the airport the entire time.
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     And this video was taken with infrared, and what
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appears to be the transmedium part, where it goes into the

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water, is actually where the temperature of the water is
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equal to the temperature of the object, and the camera can
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no longer distinguish between the two.  It is not that the
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object actually goes into the water.  So we assessed that
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the object, likely a pair of balloons or sky lanterns, was
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floating at about 7 knots over the airport and descending to
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about 200 meters.  And this video will be released, and our
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report will be released later this year.
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     The GOFAST captured the public attention and
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congressional attention when it was made public in 2017.  It
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looks like an object flying very fast over the water, very
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close to the water.  Through a very careful geospatial
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intelligence analysis, using trigonometry, we assessed with
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high confidence that the object is not actually close to the
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water but is rather closer to 13,000 feet.  The diagram here
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shows as the platform is flying and capturing the object, if
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it is closer to the platform at higher altitude a trick of
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the eye called parallax makes it look like the object is
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moving much faster.  And so we have written a detailed paper
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on parallax, released on our website, so that the public can
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literally check our math on this analysis.
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     An interesting case, which I do not believe the public
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is familiar with, is captured in 2018 from a UAV flying in
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the Mediterranean, watching Mt. Etna as it was erupting.
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And it appears that that object is flying through the plume

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of superheated gas and ash.
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     This was a rather difficult case to resolve.  We had to
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pull in support from a number of IC and S&T partners, and
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even reach out to a volcanologist.  And through very
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detailed 3D modeling and pixel-by-pixel analysis of the
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object as it is traversing across the clouds, they assessed
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that the object was actually 170 meters away from the plume
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and not flying through it.
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     And to be clear, AARO does not believe every object is
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a bird, a balloon, or a UAV.  We do have some very anomalous
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objects.  It is just the nature of resolution.  We can only
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resolve things that we understand.  So we are now working on
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additional products where we can inform the public,
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Congress, and others of the objects as we are studying them,
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rather than once we have resolved them.
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     With that I will take your questions.
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     [The prepared statement of Dr. Kosloski follows:]
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     Senator Gillibrand:  Thank you, Dr. Kosloski.  I
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appreciate your testimony.
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     It has been widely reported that individuals claiming
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firsthand knowledge of unreported UAP programs have been
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reluctant to engage with AARO.  What message do you have for
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those individuals, and how will you work to gain their
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trust?
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     Dr. Kosloski:  I would let them know that Congress has
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gone out of its way to create the organization AARO
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specifically to conduct these sorts of investigations and
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has uniquely empowered them to have access to all UAP-
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related information, whether that is historic or current.
13
And we take that responsibility and those authorities very
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seriously.
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     So we have been reaching out to a broader community,
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encouraging folks who had talked to AARO personnel in the
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past and maybe felt uncomfortable, to come back to us.  We
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have met with several of their interlocuters and a couple of
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firsthand witnesses, and we are making great progress in
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those firsthand witnesses that we have talked to do feel
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comfortable coming back to us.  And so we hope that more
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folks that do have information would go to www.aaro.mil,
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fill out the form, send it to us so we can bring them in for
24
interviews, and add their information to our investigations.
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     Senator Gillibrand:  Thank you.  I recently just read

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your report from March, your historic report, and I would
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encourage anyone who is interested in this topic to read the
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report.  Because when I was asked by a reporter about it
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they said, "Well, it doesn't show any evidence of secret
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programs that have aliens."
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     That is not how I read the report.  What I read in the
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report is the U.S. government took sightings extremely
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seriously over the last 75 years, put some of the greatest
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mind ever to analyze these cases, because they assessed them
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as some deeply unknown phenomena that may or may not cause
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threats, that may or may not be related to adversaries, but
12
are certainly something that the U.S. government needed to
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know about.
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     And what I read from this report is that we resolved
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numbers of cases, but in almost every instance, whether it
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was in the '40s, the '50s, the '60s, the '70s, the '80s, the
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'90s, the '00s, half the cases were unresolved.  So I do not
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think this is an example of the government not taking these
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cases seriously.  I think this is an example of our
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government spending 75 years taking these cases very
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seriously.
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     And interestingly, for the group that put together this
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report, they did not have access to any firsthand reporting.
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And so from my perspective, for whistleblowers and people
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who want to come in, please come in, because the purpose of

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AARO is so that the Senators can do our job to provide
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oversight, accountability, and transparency.  We find it
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very concerning that our pilots, that our Navy officers,
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that people who have sightings of UAPs are denigrated, are
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somehow dismissed or disregarded.  They need to be
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protected.
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     This is a huge issue for national security because,
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number one, we do not have domain awareness, which is very
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problematic.  Number two, we do not have domain superiority
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if we do not understand how different UAPs are flying, what
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technology they are using, what their mission is, what their
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purpose is.  And at the base level, we have so many UAPs
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around our bases, around our military sites, around our
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nuclear sites, and it is a deeply disturbing that
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adversaries, at a minimum, could be using these
16
opportunities to spy, to glean intelligence that will harm
17
our long-term national security.
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     So I am grateful that you are taking the whistleblowers
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very seriously.  I am grateful that AARO is trying its best
20
to integrate the private sector, the public into their work.
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     Interestingly, in this hearing, we heard that the FAA
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is now working hand-in-glove, which is very helpful.  We
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want this public-facing accessibility to be put in place by
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2025, so that people can upload their videos, their data,
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their reports.

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     I have met with people who have followed this issue for
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decades, and they have thousands of examples, thousands of
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pieces of data, that ultimately I want uploaded into AARO so
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you can cross-reference historic information with current
 5
information.  Because this group at AARO are the best
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scientists that we can find anywhere, and they will do the
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work that is needed to be done.  So I just want to thank you
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for that.
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     And then with my last 42 seconds, can you tell us about
10
any of the cases that merit further analysis by your IC and
11
science and technology partners?  What is it that makes
12
these cases anomalous?  And a large number of reports are
13
placed in the active archive because AARO does not have
14
enough information.  What might prompt you to reopen a case
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like that, and do you have any examples?
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     Dr. Kosloski:  Sure.  I will start with the active
17
archive case.  That is just the place where we put cases
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where we do not have enough scientific information to
19
resolve them at that time, but we are always looking for
20
opportunities to correlate them to new cases that come in,
21
as the new cases come in, as well as enrich those cases with
22
additional data.
23
     We do have one example that I am aware of where we were
24
able to correlate a number of observations of interesting
25
lights in the sky, and eventually we concluded that it was

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multiple people observing Starlink flares, just as an
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example.
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     Three cases that merit analysis that we are working on
 4
right now, one we might be in the process of resolving, but
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nonetheless, it is still interesting.
 6
     The first one was brought to us by a law enforcement
 7
officer out West, where he observed a large orange orb
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floating several hundred feet above the ground, a couple of
 9
miles away.  He went to investigate what was going on with
10
that orb, and as he was pulling up to the location where he
11
thought would be below the orb, about 40 to 60 meters away
12
from some object, the area was well lit, he saw a blacker
13
than black object.  He said it was about the size of a
14
Prius, 4 to 6 feet wide.  And as he got 40 to 60 meters away
15
from the object it tilted up about 45 degrees, and then it
16
shot up vertically, he says 10 to 100 times faster than
17
anything drone he has ever seen before.  And it did that
18
without making a sound, as far as he could tell from inside
19
of his vehicle.  And just as it left his field of view
20
through his windshield then it emitted very bright red and
21
blue lights that illuminated the inside of his vehicle, as
22
brightly as if someone had set off fireworks just outside
23
his vehicle, or street flares.
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     So that is anomalous because of the size of the vehicle
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with the great acceleration, and when he came back to

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investigate that area he found no disturbance of the ground
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beneath it.  So that is one interesting one.
 3
     Another one comes to us from Southeast U.S.  There was
 4
a U.S. facility where two cars of government contractors
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were leaving the facility, around 9:00 in the morning.  They
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looked up in the sky and saw a large metallic cylinder,
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about the size of a commercial airplane, and it was
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stationary.  They observed that there was a very bright,
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white light behind or around the object.  The saw it
10
stationary for 15 to 20 seconds, and then it disappeared.
11
Obviously, an object that large, stationary unless it is a
12
blimp, is unusual, but then disappearing, we cannot explain
13
how that would happen.
14
     And then the last case was interesting.  We had an
15
aircraft that was flying parallel to another aircraft and it
16
was capturing imagery of it, and a small-looking object
17
appeared to fly between the two of them, much faster than
18
them.  Through very careful analysis we think that the
19
object might have actually been further away than the object
20
that it was videotaping, but it requires very careful
21
analysis to come to those conclusions, and we do not have
22
the metadata to support that yet.
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     Senator Gillibrand:  Senator Ernst.
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     Senator Ernst:  Yes.  Thank you, Madam Chair.  And Dr.
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Kosloski, you mentioned that you do work with the

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intelligence community.  You are working with the FAA.  Has
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AARO involved academia?  Have you gone to universities?  Do
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you have outside organizations that you are working with,
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and if so, can you walk us through some of that
 5
collaboration?
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     Dr. Kosloski:  Sure.  Right now most of our
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collaborations that are veering towards academia are with
 8
your university affiliate and research centers associated
 9
with universities or with FFRDCs.  Our partnership with
10
university, I would say, is lacking right now.  We have some
11
one-off associations with university professors.  However,
12
that is our fault, and it is largely because of the need to
13
be classified data.  We need to give the professors
14
something to work on before we can really engage them.
15
     So we are working significantly on the declassification
16
effort.  We have hired a number of declassification experts,
17
and we are going to be trying to get cases like the ones
18
that I just discussed here declassified so that we can
19
engage with the universities on a regular basis and provide
20
them the data.  Talking to a scientist without data is going
21
to be rather disappointing.  So hopefully in 2025, we will
22
be increasing those efforts.
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     Senator Ernst:  All right.  Well, I appreciate that.  I
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think there is a huge pool of talent out there that you
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should tap into.

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     Given the public's growing concern and interest in
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UAPs, how do you balance the need for the transparency that
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our public is demanding with the potential risks of
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revealing classified defense information?
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     Dr. Kosloski:  Yeah, that is always a concern that is
 6
on the front of our minds.  We want to make sure that we are
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deconflicting both on potential U.S. programs and what the
 8
IC might be tracking for adversarial programs, as we are
 9
aggregating that information and preparing to share it.
10
However, oftentimes we can remove the discussion of the
11
unidentified and anomalous activity from the sensitive
12
information that our partners are concerned with.  And that
13
is usually going to be the platforms that the information
14
was collected with, if it is truly anomalous.  And so we
15
have our partners working alongside in the declassification
16
of that data.
17
     Senator Ernst:  Very good.  And then without having to
18
explain the UAP, what do we need to begin really doing about
19
them?  What precautions can we take?  What should we be
20
doing about them?
21
     Dr. Kosloski:  I think that removing the stigma,
22
reducing the stigma, is the first step.  We need to make
23
sure that we are having honest and transparent conversations
24
about them.  Because if we are hesitant to discuss them,
25
then it opens the opportunity for an adversary, as you had

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mentioned earlier, Senator Gillibrand, to come in and
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conduct some activity.
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     So we need to do that, and we need to have more
 4
persistent monitoring and understand that whether it is a
 5
UAP or a counter-UAS issue, that we need to have that
 6
complain domain awareness around our national security
 7
facilities.
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     Senator Ernst:  Wonderful.  Thank you.  Thank you,
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Madam Chair.
10
     Senator Gillibrand:  Just a couple of follow-up
11
questions.  We did not discuss in this setting the most
12
recent UAP, or UAS, encounter with bases like Langley.  I
13
know that the incursion by UASs that were publicly made
14
available through the press that took over 2 weeks was
15
fairly alarming to Senators, because there was a question
16
about what technology they were using, there was a question
17
about why it was so hard to detect.
18
     Can you speak to how AARO will be integrated into the
19
review of these kinds of cases and how you can be helpful to
20
both the intelligence community and the Department of
21
Defense in analyzing or being able to more quickly analyze
22
what is knowable and what is not knowable.  Because once you
23
do identify it is a drone, for example, it then goes to the
24
right department at DoD or the intelligence community to
25
assess, deal with, or take down, as the incident might be.

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     But talk to us a little bit about what role you can
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play, for both the DoD and the IC community in these kinds
 3
of incursions that are happening when we do not know what
 4
tech is being used and we do not understand a flight
 5
pattern, we do not understand how they arrive and depart in
 6
the way they do.
 7
     Dr. Kosloski:  Yeah.  We are generally going to be
 8
supporting them through an advisory capacity.  As an
 9
organization that naturally needs to conduct baseline
10
experiments of the environment to see what normal looks
11
like, whether it is balloons, birds, anomalous activity, or
12
drones flying through an environment, we are going to gather
13
a lot of data that will allow us to characterize an
14
environment very well and then detect and follow those
15
tracks, hopefully rather efficiently.
16
     There is also a lot of overlap in the type of sensors
17
that are going to be used for the counter-UAS mission and
18
the UAP mission, whether that is active detection like
19
radars, or passive like cameras.  So as AARO is trying to
20
push the bounds on detectability for UAP, we are hopefully
21
going to have best practices that we can also provide to the
22
counter-UAS, and potentially we might have additional
23
technologies that we can offer them to support.
24
     Senator Gillibrand:  I would like to just address a
25
little bit of reporting and feedback.  As you know, AARO is

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required to develop a mechanism for the public to report UAP
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information.  Now that that mechanism for current and former
 3
military, civilian, and contractor personnel has been
 4
established, can you speak to AARO's plans for a public
 5
reporting mechanism, and how did AARO arrive at this
 6
approach, and were other options considered?
 7
     And second, for pilots and operators who have reported
 8
a UAP, what feedback, if any, has AARO provided to these
 9
individuals related to what AARO is doing with their report
10
and how the report has been resolved?  How does such
11
feedback, or lack thereof, impact the frequency of UAP
12
reporting?
13
     Dr. Kosloski:  Yeah.  The public reporting mechanism
14
that we have decided to go with is going to look similar to
15
the reporting mechanism that we currently have for
16
historical events, where we are going to ask folks to go to
17
our website, download a PDF form, put in the narrative for
18
their account, and then email that to us with accompanying
19
media.  Usually it will probably be imagery.
20
     We went with that option because we thought, one, we
21
could do it rather quickly, we could do it efficiently, make
22
it very cost effective for the taxpayer.  But also we think
23
we can gather all the data that we are going to need to
24
conduct our analysis.  And then we are going to have that
25
feed into an automated processing system that will cross-

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correlate that against all the other public reported cases
 2
as well as the U.S. government cases.
 3
     We did consider a number of other reporting mechanisms,
 4
to included automated online forms as well as cellphone
 5
apps, and we ultimately decided that this would be the
 6
safest, cheapest, and easiest to maintain in the future,
 7
while protecting the private information of the individuals
 8
who are reporting.
 9
     Regarding the feedback from the result reports, right
10
now we do not have a good feedback mechanism.  It is fairly
11
informal.  We are working on building a case management
12
system that AARO will use at all classification levels, and
13
hopefully in that we will be able to provide feedback.  As
14
the case is going through the resolution process -- we have
15
multiple phases -- then the folks who report that, whether
16
it is a pilot at the classified level or someone potentially
17
reporting through another mechanism, they will get that
18
automated feedback.
19
     And then it is not determined at this point yet how
20
much information we will be able to include in that feedback
21
where it is in the process.  It will depend on the
22
classification of the resolution of the case.
23
     Senator Gillibrand:  My final question is, is there
24
anything that you need to tell the Senate that you need from
25
us, whether it is funding, whether it is support, whether it

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is legislation.  Is there any request that AARO has of us,
 2
or anything else you need to brief us on, for us to be able
 3
to do our job to protect our servicemembers as well as
 4
integrate public interest and public data and information
 5
into the future analysis efforts of AARO?
 6
     Dr. Kosloski:  First of all, I want to say thank you
 7
again.  I think that the authorities that we have are
 8
remarkable, and I think that we are well-resourced as an
 9
office.  The only ask I would have is that you continue to
10
champion us, particularly with witnesses, encourage them to
11
come forward and report to us so that we can have a more
12
fulsome investigation of the potential historic or ongoing
13
legacy programs.
14
     Senator Gillibrand:  Thank you so much.  Hearing
15
adjourned.
16
     [Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m., the subcommittee was
17
adjourned.]
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Record

Author / institution: Senate Armed Services Committee
Date: 2024-11-19
Source type: Congressional hearing transcript
Used for: Kosloski testimony on AARO activities
Limitations: Open session only; a closed session also took place

Link

https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/download/11-19-24_-sub---transcript